Discussion:
Any update on Mckoi's status?
M. A. Sridhar
2008-01-28 18:46:54 UTC
Permalink
Does anyone know what's happening with Mckoi? As you know, the last email in the archives is dated last June, so I'm wondering if/when the next version might be available.

Regards.

M. A. Sridhar
m_a_sridhar at yahoo dot com
Alexander Molochnikov
2008-01-28 19:47:30 UTC
Permalink
Two days ago I asked he same question on this mailing list.

So far, no reply from the developers of the database.

It does not look promising.

Alex

----- Original Message -----
From: "M. A. Sridhar" <***@yahoo.com>
Date: Monday, January 28, 2008 11:46 am
Subject: Any update on Mckoi's status?
Post by M. A. Sridhar
Does anyone know what's happening with Mckoi? As you know,
the last email in the archives is dated last June, so I'm
wondering if/when the next version might be available.
Regards.
M. A. Sridhar
m_a_sridhar at yahoo dot com
Richard S. Hall
2008-01-28 21:07:35 UTC
Permalink
The benefit of Mckoi being open source is that anyone that wants to can
pick up and start where the original developers left off...

-> richard
Post by Alexander Molochnikov
Two days ago I asked he same question on this mailing list.
So far, no reply from the developers of the database.
It does not look promising.
Alex
----- Original Message -----
Date: Monday, January 28, 2008 11:46 am
Subject: Any update on Mckoi's status?
Post by M. A. Sridhar
Does anyone know what's happening with Mckoi? As you know,
the last email in the archives is dated last June, so I'm
wondering if/when the next version might be available.
Regards.
M. A. Sridhar
m_a_sridhar at yahoo dot com
---------------------------------------------------------------
Mckoi SQL Database mailing list http://www.mckoi.com/database/
To unsubscribe, send a message to mckoidb-***@mckoi.com
Tena Sakai
2008-01-28 21:42:08 UTC
Permalink
Hi folks,

If I were 10 years younger,
If my mortgage was a bit less and therefore I could afford to work less than full time,
If I were a bit more fluent in database,
If I were a bit smarter and more ambitious,

THEN I would write to Tobi (is that his name?) and ask:

a) would he be willing to play a role of assisting a small group of developers,
b) what plans he had had for the future of mcKoi while he was leading the project actively,

AND

If his response were positive, I would assemble a small group (fewer than 6) of java programmers...

Oops, I just woke up from a nice dream and back into a reality. I think that's what they call this
thing I live in. But some of you may be freer, more ambirious, more devoting...
McKoi doesn't have to die.

Tena Sakai
***@gallo.ucsf.edu


-----Original Message-----
From: ***@mckoi.com on behalf of Richard S. Hall
Sent: Mon 1/28/2008 1:07 PM
To: ***@mckoi.com
Subject: Re: Any update on Mckoi's status?

The benefit of Mckoi being open source is that anyone that wants to can
pick up and start where the original developers left off...

-> richard
Post by Alexander Molochnikov
Two days ago I asked he same question on this mailing list.
So far, no reply from the developers of the database.
It does not look promising.
Alex
----- Original Message -----
Date: Monday, January 28, 2008 11:46 am
Subject: Any update on Mckoi's status?
Post by M. A. Sridhar
Does anyone know what's happening with Mckoi? As you know,
the last email in the archives is dated last June, so I'm
wondering if/when the next version might be available.
Regards.
M. A. Sridhar
m_a_sridhar at yahoo dot com
---------------------------------------------------------------
Mckoi SQL Database mailing list http://www.mckoi.com/database/
To unsubscribe, send a message to mckoidb-***@mckoi.com
Alexander Finger
2008-01-28 21:44:57 UTC
Permalink
Personally I can't imagine why anyone would waste their time. If you're
going to try and help continue development on a database their are plenty of
better open source ones out there. McKoi is dead I am sure and nothing is
going to bring her back...

A
Post by Tena Sakai
Hi folks,
If I were 10 years younger,
If my mortgage was a bit less and therefore I could afford to work less than full time,
If I were a bit more fluent in database,
If I were a bit smarter and more ambitious,
a) would he be willing to play a role of assisting a small group of developers,
b) what plans he had had for the future of mcKoi while he was leading the project actively,
AND
If his response were positive, I would assemble a small group (fewer than
6) of java programmers...
Oops, I just woke up from a nice dream and back into a reality. I think
that's what they call this
thing I live in. But some of you may be freer, more ambirious, more devoting...
McKoi doesn't have to die.
Tena Sakai
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Mon 1/28/2008 1:07 PM
Subject: Re: Any update on Mckoi's status?
The benefit of Mckoi being open source is that anyone that wants to can
pick up and start where the original developers left off...
-> richard
Post by Alexander Molochnikov
Two days ago I asked he same question on this mailing list.
So far, no reply from the developers of the database.
It does not look promising.
Alex
----- Original Message -----
Date: Monday, January 28, 2008 11:46 am
Subject: Any update on Mckoi's status?
Post by M. A. Sridhar
Does anyone know what's happening with Mckoi? As you know,
the last email in the archives is dated last June, so I'm
wondering if/when the next version might be available.
Regards.
M. A. Sridhar
m_a_sridhar at yahoo dot com
---------------------------------------------------------------
Mckoi SQL Database mailing list http://www.mckoi.com/database/
Richard S. Hall
2008-01-28 21:58:51 UTC
Permalink
"dead" does not necessarily == "trash"...

Sometimes leaders of open source projects also have to "wake up to
reality" and move onto other things.

For someone interested in leading a database project, it certainly makes
more sense to start with an existing one than to start from
scratch...unless of course the existing project really is trash.

However, I don't think that is the case for Mckoi, it always worked
reasonably well for me. "Better" depends on the metric, but why stick
around the mckoi mailing list if you think it is trash?

-> richard
Post by Alexander Finger
Personally I can't imagine why anyone would waste their time. If
you're going to try and help continue development on a database their
are plenty of better open source ones out there. McKoi is dead I am
sure and nothing is going to bring her back...
A
Hi folks,
If I were 10 years younger,
If my mortgage was a bit less and therefore I could afford to work
less than full time,
If I were a bit more fluent in database,
If I were a bit smarter and more ambitious,
a) would he be willing to play a role of assisting a small group of developers,
b) what plans he had had for the future of mcKoi while he was
leading the project actively,
AND
If his response were positive, I would assemble a small group
(fewer than 6) of java programmers...
Oops, I just woke up from a nice dream and back into a reality. I
think that's what they call this
thing I live in. But some of you may be freer, more ambirious, more devoting...
McKoi doesn't have to die.
Tena Sakai
-----Original Message-----
Richard S. Hall
Sent: Mon 1/28/2008 1:07 PM
Subject: Re: Any update on Mckoi's status?
The benefit of Mckoi being open source is that anyone that wants to can
pick up and start where the original developers left off...
-> richard
Post by Alexander Molochnikov
Two days ago I asked he same question on this mailing list.
So far, no reply from the developers of the database.
It does not look promising.
Alex
----- Original Message -----
Date: Monday, January 28, 2008 11:46 am
Subject: Any update on Mckoi's status?
Post by M. A. Sridhar
Does anyone know what's happening with Mckoi? As you know,
the last email in the archives is dated last June, so I'm
wondering if/when the next version might be available.
Regards.
M. A. Sridhar
m_a_sridhar at yahoo dot com
---------------------------------------------------------------
Mckoi SQL Database mailing list http://www.mckoi.com/database/
---------------------------------------------------------------
Mckoi SQL Database mailing list http://www.mckoi.com/database/
To unsubscribe, send a message to mckoidb-***@mckoi.com
Alexander Molochnikov
2008-01-28 23:12:16 UTC
Permalink
The silence is deafening...

I mean the silence of Toby, the original developer. If he is no longer watching this mailing list, this speaks for itself. If he is watching, but keeps silent, then this is even more telling.

Either way, I am growing more pessimistic by the hour.

And no, I do not expect a group of other Java programmers to pick up a project that seems to have been abandoned. If the original authors did not have enough interest and/or confidence in the merits of the project, the outsiders never will.

Maybe it's just me.

Alex Molochnikov

----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard S. Hall" <***@ungoverned.org>
Date: Monday, January 28, 2008 3:01 pm
Subject: Re: Any update on Mckoi's status?
Post by Richard S. Hall
"dead" does not necessarily == "trash"...
Sometimes leaders of open source projects also have to "wake up to
reality" and move onto other things.
For someone interested in leading a database project, it
certainly makes
more sense to start with an existing one than to start from
scratch...unless of course the existing project really is trash.
However, I don't think that is the case for Mckoi, it always
worked
reasonably well for me. "Better" depends on the metric, but why stick
around the mckoi mailing list if you think it is trash?
-> richard
Post by Alexander Finger
Personally I can't imagine why anyone would waste their time.
If
Post by Alexander Finger
you're going to try and help continue development on a
database their
Post by Alexander Finger
are plenty of better open source ones out there. McKoi is dead
I am
Post by Alexander Finger
sure and nothing is going to bring her back...
A
Hi folks,
If I were 10 years younger,
If my mortgage was a bit less and
therefore I could afford to work
Post by Alexander Finger
less than full time,
If I were a bit more fluent in database,
If I were a bit smarter and more ambitious,
THEN I would write to Tobi (is that
a) would he be willing to play a role
of assisting a small group
Post by Alexander Finger
of developers,
b) what plans he had had for the
future of mcKoi while he was
Post by Alexander Finger
leading the project actively,
AND
If his response were positive, I would
assemble a small group
Post by Alexander Finger
(fewer than 6) of java programmers...
Oops, I just woke up from a nice dream
and back into a reality. I
Post by Alexander Finger
think that's what they call this
thing I live in. But some of you
may be freer, more ambirious,
Post by Alexander Finger
more devoting...
McKoi doesn't have to die.
Tena Sakai
-----Original Message-----
Richard S. Hall
Sent: Mon 1/28/2008 1:07 PM
Re: Any update on Mckoi's status?
Post by Alexander Finger
The benefit of Mckoi being open source
is that anyone that wants
Post by Alexander Finger
to can
pick up and start where the original
developers left off...
Post by Alexander Finger
-> richard
Post by Alexander Molochnikov
Two days ago I asked he same
question on this mailing list.
Post by Alexander Finger
Post by Alexander Molochnikov
So far, no reply from the developers
of the database.
Post by Alexander Finger
Post by Alexander Molochnikov
It does not look promising.
Alex
----- Original Message -----
From: "M. A. Sridhar"
Date: Monday, January 28, 2008 11:46 am
Post by Alexander Finger
Post by Alexander Molochnikov
Subject: Any update on Mckoi's status?
To: Mckoi mailing list
Post by M. A. Sridhar
Does anyone know what's happening
with Mckoi? As you know,
Post by Alexander Finger
Post by Alexander Molochnikov
Post by M. A. Sridhar
the last email in the archives is
dated last June, so I'm
Post by Alexander Finger
Post by Alexander Molochnikov
Post by M. A. Sridhar
wondering if/when the next version
might be available.
Post by Alexander Finger
Post by Alexander Molochnikov
Post by M. A. Sridhar
Regards.
M. A. Sridhar
m_a_sridhar at yahoo dot com
---------------------------------------
------------------------
Post by Alexander Finger
Mckoi SQL Database mailing list
http://www.mckoi.com/database/> To
---------------------------------------------------------------
Mckoi SQL Database mailing list http://www.mckoi.com/database/
Richard S. Hall
2008-01-28 23:34:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alexander Molochnikov
The silence is deafening...
I mean the silence of Toby, the original developer. If he is no longer
watching this mailing list, this speaks for itself. If he is watching,
but keeps silent, then this is even more telling.
Either way, I am growing more pessimistic by the hour.
And no, I do not expect a group of other Java programmers to pick up a
project that seems to have been abandoned. If the original authors did
not have enough interest and/or confidence in the merits of the
project, the outsiders never will.
Maybe it's just me.
I think that is not the right way to look at it. There are lots of
people that take over "dead" or "non-responsive" projects, e.g.,
AtheOS->Syllable, Handbrake->MediaFork (now merged back in),
Compiere->Adempiere, etc.

As I said, "dead" doesn't equate to "not good", sometimes people just
run out of time.

-> richard
Post by Alexander Molochnikov
Alex Molochnikov
----- Original Message -----
Date: Monday, January 28, 2008 3:01 pm
Subject: Re: Any update on Mckoi's status?
Post by Richard S. Hall
"dead" does not necessarily == "trash"...
Sometimes leaders of open source projects also have to "wake up to
reality" and move onto other things.
For someone interested in leading a database project, it
certainly makes
more sense to start with an existing one than to start from
scratch...unless of course the existing project really is trash.
However, I don't think that is the case for Mckoi, it always
worked
reasonably well for me. "Better" depends on the metric, but why stick
around the mckoi mailing list if you think it is trash?
-> richard
Post by Alexander Finger
Personally I can't imagine why anyone would waste their time.
If
Post by Alexander Finger
you're going to try and help continue development on a
database their
Post by Alexander Finger
are plenty of better open source ones out there. McKoi is dead
I am
Post by Alexander Finger
sure and nothing is going to bring her back...
A
Hi folks,
If I were 10 years younger,
If my mortgage was a bit less and
therefore I could afford to work
Post by Alexander Finger
less than full time,
If I were a bit more fluent in database,
If I were a bit smarter and more ambitious,
THEN I would write to Tobi (is that
a) would he be willing to play a role
of assisting a small group
Post by Alexander Finger
of developers,
b) what plans he had had for the
future of mcKoi while he was
Post by Alexander Finger
leading the project actively,
AND
If his response were positive, I would
assemble a small group
Post by Alexander Finger
(fewer than 6) of java programmers...
Oops, I just woke up from a nice dream
and back into a reality. I
Post by Alexander Finger
think that's what they call this
thing I live in. But some of you
may be freer, more ambirious,
Post by Alexander Finger
more devoting...
McKoi doesn't have to die.
Tena Sakai
-----Original Message-----
Richard S. Hall
Sent: Mon 1/28/2008 1:07 PM
Re: Any update on Mckoi's status?
Post by Alexander Finger
The benefit of Mckoi being open source
is that anyone that wants
Post by Alexander Finger
to can
pick up and start where the original
developers left off...
Post by Alexander Finger
-> richard
Post by Alexander Molochnikov
Two days ago I asked he same
question on this mailing list.
Post by Alexander Finger
Post by Alexander Molochnikov
So far, no reply from the developers
of the database.
Post by Alexander Finger
Post by Alexander Molochnikov
It does not look promising.
Alex
----- Original Message -----
From: "M. A. Sridhar"
Date: Monday, January 28, 2008 11:46 am
Post by Alexander Finger
Post by Alexander Molochnikov
Subject: Any update on Mckoi's status?
To: Mckoi mailing list
Post by M. A. Sridhar
Does anyone know what's happening
with Mckoi? As you know,
Post by Alexander Finger
Post by Alexander Molochnikov
Post by M. A. Sridhar
the last email in the archives is
dated last June, so I'm
Post by Alexander Finger
Post by Alexander Molochnikov
Post by M. A. Sridhar
wondering if/when the next version
might be available.
Post by Alexander Finger
Post by Alexander Molochnikov
Post by M. A. Sridhar
Regards.
M. A. Sridhar
m_a_sridhar at yahoo dot com
---------------------------------------
------------------------
Post by Alexander Finger
Mckoi SQL Database mailing list
http://www.mckoi.com/database/> To
---------------------------------------------------------------
Mckoi SQL Database mailing list http://www.mckoi.com/database/
---------------------------------------------------------------
Mckoi SQL Database mailing list http://www.mckoi.com/database/
To unsubscribe, send a message to mckoidb-***@mckoi.com
Alexander Molochnikov
2008-01-29 00:17:23 UTC
Permalink
Richard,

I never said McKoi was "no good". Rather, I believe it is its future that is in question. I, for one, would never attempt to keep the ball rolling on something that has two licenses, one GPL, and one commercial. First, the ambiguity of licensing will have to be resolved, with the commercial license dropped. Second, I would not touch the GPLed stuff either. It is too restrictive for the third party to carry on the development, and usually is a big NO-NO in any commercial environment.

If McKoi is to be given a new life, it would have to be rebranded as LGPL first. But with the original developers being absent, this is pretty much dead in the water.

Alex Molochnikov

----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard S. Hall" <***@ungoverned.org>
Date: Monday, January 28, 2008 4:37 pm
Subject: Re: Any update on Mckoi's status?
Post by Richard S. Hall
Post by Alexander Molochnikov
The silence is deafening...
I think that is not the right way to look at it. There are lots
of people that take over "dead" or "non-responsive" projects, e.g.,
AtheOS->Syllable, Handbrake->MediaFork (now merged back in),
Compiere->Adempiere, etc.
As I said, "dead" doesn't equate to "not good", sometimes people
just run out of time.
-> richard
Richard S. Hall
2008-01-29 00:42:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alexander Molochnikov
I never said McKoi was "no good". Rather, I believe it is its future
that is in question.
Yes, I didn't mean to put words in your mouth.
Post by Alexander Molochnikov
I, for one, would never attempt to keep the ball rolling on something
that has two licenses, one GPL, and one commercial. First, the
ambiguity of licensing will have to be resolved, with the commercial
license dropped. Second, I would not touch the GPLed stuff either. It
is too restrictive for the third party to carry on the development,
and usually is a big NO-NO in any commercial environment.
Well, I am no big fan of GPL either, but there is no difficulty in
continuing the development of the GPL-licensed code...that is the whole
point of GPL. The only restriction that GPL places on people who fork is
that they have to keep the license GPL too. For many people, GPL is the
license of choice for this very "viral" reason.

The dual-licensing scheme is a hedge-your-bets open source strategy by
many companies, when they still want to try to sell licenses. Of course,
many are surprised to find out that their work can still be forked if
they are not responsive to the community. That is why perhaps a better
strategy is to only open source infrastructure or middleware and keep
higher level services proprietary...but that is a whole other discussion.
Post by Alexander Molochnikov
If McKoi is to be given a new life, it would have to be rebranded as
LGPL first. But with the original developers being absent, this is
pretty much dead in the water.
Well, you are making a statement of religion, not technology. Many
people prefer GPL over every other license, many people don't. I agree
that this could limit mckoi being embedded in other products that do not
want GPL, but for those that just use JDBC, they might be able to work
around this.

-> richard
Post by Alexander Molochnikov
Alex Molochnikov
----- Original Message -----
Date: Monday, January 28, 2008 4:37 pm
Subject: Re: Any update on Mckoi's status?
Post by Richard S. Hall
Post by Alexander Molochnikov
The silence is deafening...
I think that is not the right way to look at it. There are lots
of people that take over "dead" or "non-responsive" projects, e.g.,
AtheOS->Syllable, Handbrake->MediaFork (now merged back in),
Compiere->Adempiere, etc.
As I said, "dead" doesn't equate to "not good", sometimes people
just run out of time.
-> richard
---------------------------------------------------------------
Mckoi SQL Database mailing list http://www.mckoi.com/database/
To unsubscribe, send a message to mckoidb-***@mckoi.com
Bayless Kirtley
2008-01-29 04:05:27 UTC
Permalink
Well, as users of free and open source software, we certainly would be
wrong in speaking badly about the developers or probably even the
product. As has been pointed out, times do change and people have
to adjust to those changes. If I recall, Toby originally developed McKoi
for his employer who later, graciously agreed to make it open source.
Any number of things could have happened causing both Toby and his
employer to concentrate efforts on other things even to the exclusion of
McKoi. I switched as a personal decision and have no ill feelings for
Toby or his employer. In fact, I salute them for their generosity.

Now, for the licensing concerns. GPL has certainly been an important
contribution to software development and developers. Most of us do
have to make a living though and can't distribute everything we do under
GPL. One of the most interesting features of McKoi was its ability to be
embedded entirely within another product. It was actually the first data
base I discovered with that feature. It was not needed for the major
project I was doing at the time but would have been for some smaller
things in the "thinking" stage. As for any future development on McKoi,
it would definitely be an advantage if it could be relicensed LGPL.

JMHO,
Bayless

----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard S. Hall" <***@ungoverned.org>
To: <***@mckoi.com>
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 6:42 PM
Subject: Re: Any update on Mckoi's status?
Post by Richard S. Hall
Post by Alexander Molochnikov
I never said McKoi was "no good". Rather, I believe it is its future that
is in question.
Yes, I didn't mean to put words in your mouth.
Post by Alexander Molochnikov
I, for one, would never attempt to keep the ball rolling on something
that has two licenses, one GPL, and one commercial. First, the ambiguity
of licensing will have to be resolved, with the commercial license
dropped. Second, I would not touch the GPLed stuff either. It is too
restrictive for the third party to carry on the development, and usually
is a big NO-NO in any commercial environment.
Well, I am no big fan of GPL either, but there is no difficulty in
continuing the development of the GPL-licensed code...that is the whole
point of GPL. The only restriction that GPL places on people who fork is
that they have to keep the license GPL too. For many people, GPL is the
license of choice for this very "viral" reason.
The dual-licensing scheme is a hedge-your-bets open source strategy by
many companies, when they still want to try to sell licenses. Of course,
many are surprised to find out that their work can still be forked if they
are not responsive to the community. That is why perhaps a better strategy
is to only open source infrastructure or middleware and keep higher level
services proprietary...but that is a whole other discussion.
Post by Alexander Molochnikov
If McKoi is to be given a new life, it would have to be rebranded as LGPL
first. But with the original developers being absent, this is pretty much
dead in the water.
Well, you are making a statement of religion, not technology. Many people
prefer GPL over every other license, many people don't. I agree that this
could limit mckoi being embedded in other products that do not want GPL,
but for those that just use JDBC, they might be able to work around this.
-> richard
Post by Alexander Molochnikov
Alex Molochnikov
----- Original Message -----
Date: Monday, January 28, 2008 4:37 pm
Subject: Re: Any update on Mckoi's status?
Post by Richard S. Hall
Post by Alexander Molochnikov
The silence is deafening...
I think that is not the right way to look at it. There are lots
of people that take over "dead" or "non-responsive" projects, e.g.,
AtheOS->Syllable, Handbrake->MediaFork (now merged back in),
Compiere->Adempiere, etc.
As I said, "dead" doesn't equate to "not good", sometimes people
just run out of time.
-> richard
---------------------------------------------------------------
Mckoi SQL Database mailing list http://www.mckoi.com/database/
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
269.19.14/1247 - Release Date: 1/28/2008 10:59 AM
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To unsubscribe, send a message to mckoidb-***@mckoi.com
Tobias Downer
2008-01-30 04:02:19 UTC
Permalink
I'm still here. I can understand your pessimism about the Mckoi
project. However, the project is not going to be in limbo for much
longer and I'll be putting all doubts about the project being abandoned
soon. Just the past two months I've been straightening out the SQL
parser, planner and optimizer in v2 and it's coming together nicely. As
soon as I have a build that is usable, it'll be up on the website.

Version 2 is intended to return the project to the track it was
originally envisioned to take, that of a strict transactional database
codebase that is easy to understand and extend in any way a developer
may want, not just limited to SQL. To that end, I plan on adding a
great deal more documentation about how Mckoi works and examples of what
you can do with it to the website. I think people who are interested in
the workings of transactional databases will like this a lot and I'm
hoping it will open the project up to a wider audience that are
interested in more primitive data storage/query APIs but want the option
of going to a full featured SQL system when needed.

There's a lot of new stuff I can't wait to show off. Don't be surprised
if a lot of new stuff suddenly starts happening around here.

Toby.
Post by Alexander Molochnikov
The silence is deafening...
I mean the silence of Toby, the original developer. If he is no longer
watching this mailing list, this speaks for itself. If he is watching,
but keeps silent, then this is even more telling.
Either way, I am growing more pessimistic by the hour.
And no, I do not expect a group of other Java programmers to pick up a
project that seems to have been abandoned. If the original authors did
not have enough interest and/or confidence in the merits of the project,
the outsiders never will.
Maybe it's just me.
Alex Molochnikov
---------------------------------------------------------------
Mckoi SQL Database mailing list http://www.mckoi.com/database/
To unsubscribe, send a message to mckoidb-***@mckoi.com
Alex Molochnikov
2008-01-30 04:41:14 UTC
Permalink
That's a good news. Glad to hear the project is alive.

Best wishes.

Thanks,
Alex

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tobias Downer" <***@mckoi.com>
To: <***@mckoi.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 9:02 PM
Subject: Re: Any update on Mckoi's status?
Post by Tobias Downer
I'm still here. I can understand your pessimism about the Mckoi
project. However, the project is not going to be in limbo for much
longer and I'll be putting all doubts about the project being abandoned
soon. Just the past two months I've been straightening out the SQL
parser, planner and optimizer in v2 and it's coming together nicely. As
soon as I have a build that is usable, it'll be up on the website.
Version 2 is intended to return the project to the track it was
originally envisioned to take, that of a strict transactional database
codebase that is easy to understand and extend in any way a developer
may want, not just limited to SQL. To that end, I plan on adding a
great deal more documentation about how Mckoi works and examples of what
you can do with it to the website. I think people who are interested in
the workings of transactional databases will like this a lot and I'm
hoping it will open the project up to a wider audience that are
interested in more primitive data storage/query APIs but want the option
of going to a full featured SQL system when needed.
There's a lot of new stuff I can't wait to show off. Don't be surprised
if a lot of new stuff suddenly starts happening around here.
Toby.
Post by Alexander Molochnikov
The silence is deafening...
I mean the silence of Toby, the original developer. If he is no longer
watching this mailing list, this speaks for itself. If he is watching,
but keeps silent, then this is even more telling.
Either way, I am growing more pessimistic by the hour.
And no, I do not expect a group of other Java programmers to pick up a
project that seems to have been abandoned. If the original authors did
not have enough interest and/or confidence in the merits of the project,
the outsiders never will.
Maybe it's just me.
Alex Molochnikov
---------------------------------------------------------------
Mckoi SQL Database mailing list http://www.mckoi.com/database/
---------------------------------------------------------------
Mckoi SQL Database mailing list http://www.mckoi.com/database/
To unsubscribe, send a message to mckoidb-***@mckoi.com
Bayless Kirtley
2008-01-30 19:52:32 UTC
Permalink
Yes, I too am pleased to hear that you are still involved Toby. If you
do open up development, I'm sure there will be others willing to help.
I include myself in that too.

Bayless

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alex Molochnikov" <***@shaw.ca>
To: <***@mckoi.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 10:41 PM
Subject: Re: Any update on Mckoi's status?
Post by Alex Molochnikov
That's a good news. Glad to hear the project is alive.
Best wishes.
Thanks,
Alex
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 9:02 PM
Subject: Re: Any update on Mckoi's status?
Post by Tobias Downer
I'm still here. I can understand your pessimism about the Mckoi
project. However, the project is not going to be in limbo for much
longer and I'll be putting all doubts about the project being abandoned
soon. Just the past two months I've been straightening out the SQL
parser, planner and optimizer in v2 and it's coming together nicely. As
soon as I have a build that is usable, it'll be up on the website.
Version 2 is intended to return the project to the track it was
originally envisioned to take, that of a strict transactional database
codebase that is easy to understand and extend in any way a developer
may want, not just limited to SQL. To that end, I plan on adding a
great deal more documentation about how Mckoi works and examples of what
you can do with it to the website. I think people who are interested in
the workings of transactional databases will like this a lot and I'm
hoping it will open the project up to a wider audience that are
interested in more primitive data storage/query APIs but want the option
of going to a full featured SQL system when needed.
There's a lot of new stuff I can't wait to show off. Don't be surprised
if a lot of new stuff suddenly starts happening around here.
Toby.
Post by Alexander Molochnikov
The silence is deafening...
I mean the silence of Toby, the original developer. If he is no longer
watching this mailing list, this speaks for itself. If he is watching,
but keeps silent, then this is even more telling.
Either way, I am growing more pessimistic by the hour.
And no, I do not expect a group of other Java programmers to pick up a
project that seems to have been abandoned. If the original authors did
not have enough interest and/or confidence in the merits of the project,
the outsiders never will.
Maybe it's just me.
Alex Molochnikov
---------------------------------------------------------------
Mckoi SQL Database mailing list http://www.mckoi.com/database/
---------------------------------------------------------------
Mckoi SQL Database mailing list http://www.mckoi.com/database/
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
1/29/2008 9:51 AM
---------------------------------------------------------------
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Tena Sakai
2008-01-30 05:02:25 UTC
Permalink
Hi Toby,

Thanks for your breaking silence. I am pleased
to hear the updates and direction you have in
mind.

Tena Sakai


-----Original Message-----
From: ***@mckoi.com on behalf of Tobias Downer
Sent: Tue 1/29/2008 8:02 PM
To: ***@mckoi.com
Subject: Re: Any update on Mckoi's status?

I'm still here. I can understand your pessimism about the Mckoi
project. However, the project is not going to be in limbo for much
longer and I'll be putting all doubts about the project being abandoned
soon. Just the past two months I've been straightening out the SQL
parser, planner and optimizer in v2 and it's coming together nicely. As
soon as I have a build that is usable, it'll be up on the website.

Version 2 is intended to return the project to the track it was
originally envisioned to take, that of a strict transactional database
codebase that is easy to understand and extend in any way a developer
may want, not just limited to SQL. To that end, I plan on adding a
great deal more documentation about how Mckoi works and examples of what
you can do with it to the website. I think people who are interested in
the workings of transactional databases will like this a lot and I'm
hoping it will open the project up to a wider audience that are
interested in more primitive data storage/query APIs but want the option
of going to a full featured SQL system when needed.

There's a lot of new stuff I can't wait to show off. Don't be surprised
if a lot of new stuff suddenly starts happening around here.

Toby.
Post by Alexander Molochnikov
The silence is deafening...
I mean the silence of Toby, the original developer. If he is no longer
watching this mailing list, this speaks for itself. If he is watching,
but keeps silent, then this is even more telling.
Either way, I am growing more pessimistic by the hour.
And no, I do not expect a group of other Java programmers to pick up a
project that seems to have been abandoned. If the original authors did
not have enough interest and/or confidence in the merits of the project,
the outsiders never will.
Maybe it's just me.
Alex Molochnikov
---------------------------------------------------------------
Mckoi SQL Database mailing list http://www.mckoi.com/database/
To unsubscribe, send a message to mckoidb-***@mckoi.com
Nicholas Romero
2008-01-30 13:21:19 UTC
Permalink
Toby,

I am very glad to hear that the project is on track. As a long time user
for many internal projects I have been satisfied and even pleasantly
surprised by the stability and performance. It just works for what I
need it for. My emphasis is on reliability over flat out speed and tons
of features. One of the most useful features has always been the
mechanism to add additional functions to the base system. This has taken
care of 90% of what I needed. The only thing I would like to see is an
ODBC driver or compatibility with some other wire protocol so that
someone else's driver could be used. This would come in handy in quite
a few places.

Beyond all this. Thank you Toby for all the hard work. If I can
contribute to the beer fund, let me know.
-nxn
Post by Tobias Downer
I'm still here. I can understand your pessimism about the Mckoi
project. However, the project is not going to be in limbo for much
longer and I'll be putting all doubts about the project being
abandoned {...}
Toby.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Mckoi SQL Database mailing list http://www.mckoi.com/database/
To unsubscribe, send a message to mckoidb-***@mckoi.com
Tobias Downer
2008-01-30 23:48:27 UTC
Permalink
Specification of user defined functions will be changing in 2.0 but it
will still be relatively straightforward to add them to a database.

Toby.
Post by Nicholas Romero
Toby,
I am very glad to hear that the project is on track. As a long time user
for many internal projects I have been satisfied and even pleasantly
surprised by the stability and performance. It just works for what I
need it for. My emphasis is on reliability over flat out speed and tons
of features. One of the most useful features has always been the
mechanism to add additional functions to the base system. This has taken
care of 90% of what I needed. The only thing I would like to see is an
ODBC driver or compatibility with some other wire protocol so that
someone else's driver could be used. This would come in handy in quite
a few places.
Beyond all this. Thank you Toby for all the hard work. If I can
contribute to the beer fund, let me know.
-nxn
---------------------------------------------------------------
Mckoi SQL Database mailing list http://www.mckoi.com/database/
To unsubscribe, send a message to mckoidb-***@mckoi.com
a***@gmail.com
2008-01-28 23:23:25 UTC
Permalink
Good point rich,
It is better to work on a pre-existing one rather than start from scratch. Also I know that many people have great experiences with mckoi; I did when I first started using it. Unfortunately the more functionality my software required the more limited I found mckoi to be.
As for why am I still around? Crap I signed up for the forum to solve a problem I had a couple years back (questions that were never answered) and never took myself of6. Never thought of cancelling my subscription to the group until now -- I have never before seen people talking on this and between the half dozen of us that have been posing the last few days I am 100% positive we've posted more in 3 days than this group has in its entirety in the last 2 years. So there had never been a need until now. I hope my negativity isn't causing anyone to resent me; I am only posting about my experiences with mckoi.

Alex
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

-----Original Message-----
From: "Richard S. Hall" <***@ungoverned.org>

Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 16:58:51
To:***@mckoi.com
Subject: Re: Any update on Mckoi's status?


"dead" does not necessarily == "trash"...

Sometimes leaders of open source projects also have to "wake up to
reality" and move onto other things.

For someone interested in leading a database project, it certainly makes
more sense to start with an existing one than to start from
scratch...unless of course the existing project really is trash.

However, I don't think that is the case for Mckoi, it always worked
reasonably well for me. "Better" depends on the metric, but why stick
around the mckoi mailing list if you think it is trash?

-> richard
Post by Alexander Finger
Personally I can't imagine why anyone would waste their time. If
you're going to try and help continue development on a database their
are plenty of better open source ones out there. McKoi is dead I am
sure and nothing is going to bring her back...
A
Hi folks,
If I were 10 years younger,
If my mortgage was a bit less and therefore I could afford to work
less than full time,
If I were a bit more fluent in database,
If I were a bit smarter and more ambitious,
a) would he be willing to play a role of assisting a small group of developers,
b) what plans he had had for the future of mcKoi while he was
leading the project actively,
AND
If his response were positive, I would assemble a small group
(fewer than 6) of java programmers...
Oops, I just woke up from a nice dream and back into a reality. I
think that's what they call this
thing I live in. But some of you may be freer, more ambirious, more devoting...
McKoi doesn't have to die.
Tena Sakai
-----Original Message-----
Richard S. Hall
Sent: Mon 1/28/2008 1:07 PM
Subject: Re: Any update on Mckoi's status?
The benefit of Mckoi being open source is that anyone that wants to can
pick up and start where the original developers left off...
-> richard
Post by Alexander Molochnikov
Two days ago I asked he same question on this mailing list.
So far, no reply from the developers of the database.
It does not look promising.
Alex
----- Original Message -----
Date: Monday, January 28, 2008 11:46 am
Subject: Any update on Mckoi's status?
Post by M. A. Sridhar
Does anyone know what's happening with Mckoi? As you know,
the last email in the archives is dated last June, so I'm
wondering if/when the next version might be available.
Regards.
M. A. Sridhar
m_a_sridhar at yahoo dot com
---------------------------------------------------------------
Mckoi SQL Database mailing list http://www.mckoi.com/database/
---------------------------------------------------------------
Mckoi SQL Database mailing list http://www.mckoi.com/database/
To unsubscribe, send a message to mckoidb-***@mckoi.com
Richard S. Hall
2008-01-28 23:40:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@gmail.com
Good point rich,
It is better to work on a pre-existing one rather than start from scratch. Also I know that many people have great experiences with mckoi; I did when I first started using it. Unfortunately the more functionality my software required the more limited I found mckoi to be.
As for why am I still around? Crap I signed up for the forum to solve a problem I had a couple years back (questions that were never answered) and never took myself of6. Never thought of cancelling my subscription to the group until now -- I have never before seen people talking on this and between the half dozen of us that have been posing the last few days I am 100% positive we've posted more in 3 days than this group has in its entirety in the last 2 years. So there had never been a need until now. I hope my negativity isn't causing anyone to resent me; I am only posting about my experiences with mckoi.
I agree this is the most activity in a long time. :-)

However, I guess I am just commenting as someone who does do a lot of
open source work that users are not owed anything, so it doesn't make
much sense to be very negative, especially since you have no idea what
is going on in the life of the original developer. It could be that his
original funding is gone and he had to move onto other endeavors in
order to feed his family or worse. Or it could be that he just got bored.

In the end, it doesn't matter why development stopped since he/she/they
owe us nothing if we were just using the software for free. However,
they at least did us the kindness of giving us the code to do with it as
we want, so that we are not completely stuck if we are really in a
bind...of course, this is a big undertaking, but it is still possible.
If this were a commercial company and we paid for the database and they
went out of business, we would not even get that chance.

-> richard
Post by a***@gmail.com
Alex
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
-----Original Message-----
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 16:58:51
Subject: Re: Any update on Mckoi's status?
"dead" does not necessarily == "trash"...
Sometimes leaders of open source projects also have to "wake up to
reality" and move onto other things.
For someone interested in leading a database project, it certainly makes
more sense to start with an existing one than to start from
scratch...unless of course the existing project really is trash.
However, I don't think that is the case for Mckoi, it always worked
reasonably well for me. "Better" depends on the metric, but why stick
around the mckoi mailing list if you think it is trash?
-> richard
Post by Alexander Finger
Personally I can't imagine why anyone would waste their time. If
you're going to try and help continue development on a database their
are plenty of better open source ones out there. McKoi is dead I am
sure and nothing is going to bring her back...
A
Hi folks,
If I were 10 years younger,
If my mortgage was a bit less and therefore I could afford to work
less than full time,
If I were a bit more fluent in database,
If I were a bit smarter and more ambitious,
a) would he be willing to play a role of assisting a small group of developers,
b) what plans he had had for the future of mcKoi while he was
leading the project actively,
AND
If his response were positive, I would assemble a small group
(fewer than 6) of java programmers...
Oops, I just woke up from a nice dream and back into a reality. I
think that's what they call this
thing I live in. But some of you may be freer, more ambirious, more devoting...
McKoi doesn't have to die.
Tena Sakai
-----Original Message-----
Richard S. Hall
Sent: Mon 1/28/2008 1:07 PM
Subject: Re: Any update on Mckoi's status?
The benefit of Mckoi being open source is that anyone that wants to can
pick up and start where the original developers left off...
-> richard
Post by Alexander Molochnikov
Two days ago I asked he same question on this mailing list.
So far, no reply from the developers of the database.
It does not look promising.
Alex
----- Original Message -----
Date: Monday, January 28, 2008 11:46 am
Subject: Any update on Mckoi's status?
Post by M. A. Sridhar
Does anyone know what's happening with Mckoi? As you know,
the last email in the archives is dated last June, so I'm
wondering if/when the next version might be available.
Regards.
M. A. Sridhar
m_a_sridhar at yahoo dot com
---------------------------------------------------------------
Mckoi SQL Database mailing list http://www.mckoi.com/database/
---------------------------------------------------------------
Mckoi SQL Database mailing list http://www.mckoi.com/database/
---------------------------------------------------------------
Mckoi SQL Database mailing list http://www.mckoi.com/database/
To unsubscribe, send a message to mckoidb-***@mckoi.com
a***@gmail.com
2008-01-28 23:57:27 UTC
Permalink
True, it is not known to any of us why toby stopped development and their could be any number of reasons. Also you're right that it doesn't make sense to be negative since open source software is fairly well supported regardless of the whereabouts of the original writer(s) and that is huge considering you'd never see that with a proprietary company that discontinued a product.
However, I've been working on and off with mckoi for a few years now, been a member of this group for almost as long and have tried to acquire support for my mckoi problems many times in the past through here and by attempting to contact toby directly. It had become fairly clear (until now) that there simply isn't support out there and seemingly not a mckoi user community either. With that I have to voice my opinions about the uselssness of being a 'dreamer' in regards to mckoi. I'm a dreamer myself but I can dream up something a little cooler and more useful than a spruced up mckoi, I would like to think.

Alex
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

-----Original Message-----
From: "Richard S. Hall" <***@ungoverned.org>

Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 18:40:37
To:***@mckoi.com
Subject: Re: Any update on Mckoi's status?
Post by a***@gmail.com
Good point rich,
It is better to work on a pre-existing one rather than start from scratch. Also I know that many people have great experiences with mckoi; I did when I first started using it. Unfortunately the more functionality my software required the more limited I found mckoi to be.
As for why am I still around? Crap I signed up for the forum to solve a problem I had a couple years back (questions that were never answered) and never took myself of6. Never thought of cancelling my subscription to the group until now -- I have never before seen people talking on this and between the half dozen of us that have been posing the last few days I am 100% positive we've posted more in 3 days than this group has in its entirety in the last 2 years. So there had never been a need until now. I hope my negativity isn't causing anyone to resent me; I am only posting about my experiences with mckoi.
I agree this is the most activity in a long time. :-)

However, I guess I am just commenting as someone who does do a lot of
open source work that users are not owed anything, so it doesn't make
much sense to be very negative, especially since you have no idea what
is going on in the life of the original developer. It could be that his
original funding is gone and he had to move onto other endeavors in
order to feed his family or worse. Or it could be that he just got bored.

In the end, it doesn't matter why development stopped since he/she/they
owe us nothing if we were just using the software for free. However,
they at least did us the kindness of giving us the code to do with it as
we want, so that we are not completely stuck if we are really in a
bind...of course, this is a big undertaking, but it is still possible.
If this were a commercial company and we paid for the database and they
went out of business, we would not even get that chance.

-> richard
Post by a***@gmail.com
Alex
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
-----Original Message-----
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 16:58:51
Subject: Re: Any update on Mckoi's status?
"dead" does not necessarily == "trash"...
Sometimes leaders of open source projects also have to "wake up to
reality" and move onto other things.
For someone interested in leading a database project, it certainly makes
more sense to start with an existing one than to start from
scratch...unless of course the existing project really is trash.
However, I don't think that is the case for Mckoi, it always worked
reasonably well for me. "Better" depends on the metric, but why stick
around the mckoi mailing list if you think it is trash?
-> richard
Post by Alexander Finger
Personally I can't imagine why anyone would waste their time. If
you're going to try and help continue development on a database their
are plenty of better open source ones out there. McKoi is dead I am
sure and nothing is going to bring her back...
A
Hi folks,
If I were 10 years younger,
If my mortgage was a bit less and therefore I could afford to work
less than full time,
If I were a bit more fluent in database,
If I were a bit smarter and more ambitious,
a) would he be willing to play a role of assisting a small group of developers,
b) what plans he had had for the future of mcKoi while he was
leading the project actively,
AND
If his response were positive, I would assemble a small group
(fewer than 6) of java programmers...
Oops, I just woke up from a nice dream and back into a reality. I
think that's what they call this
thing I live in. But some of you may be freer, more ambirious, more devoting...
McKoi doesn't have to die.
Tena Sakai
-----Original Message-----
Richard S. Hall
Sent: Mon 1/28/2008 1:07 PM
Subject: Re: Any update on Mckoi's status?
The benefit of Mckoi being open source is that anyone that wants to can
pick up and start where the original developers left off...
-> richard
Post by Alexander Molochnikov
Two days ago I asked he same question on this mailing list.
So far, no reply from the developers of the database.
It does not look promising.
Alex
----- Original Message -----
Date: Monday, January 28, 2008 11:46 am
Subject: Any update on Mckoi's status?
Post by M. A. Sridhar
Does anyone know what's happening with Mckoi? As you know,
the last email in the archives is dated last June, so I'm
wondering if/when the next version might be available.
Regards.
M. A. Sridhar
m_a_sridhar at yahoo dot com
---------------------------------------------------------------
Mckoi SQL Database mailing list http://www.mckoi.com/database/
---------------------------------------------------------------
Mckoi SQL Database mailing list http://www.mckoi.com/database/
---------------------------------------------------------------
Mckoi SQL Database mailing list http://www.mckoi.com/database/
To unsubscribe, send a message to mckoidb-u
Tobias Downer
2008-01-30 04:32:22 UTC
Permalink
Alex,

Part of the reason for this I think is because I took on the
responsibility for all the support on the mailing list in the past and
so it became somewhat expected of me to answer all the questions.
Unfortunately that really burned me out and now Mckoi hasn't seen a
release for a long time it hasn't been a good environment to foster a
helpful community around the software.

This project has mostly been a one man show. That has its good and bad
points, but I think going into the future this is going to have to change.

Toby.
Post by a***@gmail.com
True, it is not known to any of us why toby stopped development and their could be any number of reasons. Also you're right that it doesn't make sense to be negative since open source software is fairly well supported regardless of the whereabouts of the original writer(s) and that is huge considering you'd never see that with a proprietary company that discontinued a product.
However, I've been working on and off with mckoi for a few years now, been a member of this group for almost as long and have tried to acquire support for my mckoi problems many times in the past through here and by attempting to contact toby directly. It had become fairly clear (until now) that there simply isn't support out there and seemingly not a mckoi user community either. With that I have to voice my opinions about the uselssness of being a 'dreamer' in regards to mckoi. I'm a dreamer myself but I can dream up something a little cooler and more useful than a spruced up mckoi, I would like to think.
Alex
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
---------------------------------------------------------------
Mckoi SQL Database mailing list http://www.mckoi.com/database/
To unsubscribe, send a message to mckoidb-***@mckoi.com
Mark Salter
2008-01-30 07:33:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tobias Downer
This project has mostly been a one man show. That has its good and bad
points, but I think going into the future this is going to have to change.
And it should be a two way street.

With the details of the Mckoi internals available on the website, I'm
sure some people will be more likely to start supporting the solution
they use.

As a long time lurker (but not a Mckoi user) of this list, I will be
happy to assist where/when I can. May I suggest you try delegating to
the list when you feel the need?

Are you near to sharing access to the version 2 code? I for one would
like to take a look at the pre-release, perhaps helping to polish the
finish?
--
Mark


---------------------------------------------------------------
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To unsubscribe, send a message to mckoidb-***@mckoi.com
John Garrett Smith
2008-01-30 10:35:48 UTC
Permalink
Toby,

These news about the ongoing development are wonderful, specially for
people like us making a great use of McKoi in our applications and
pretty satisfied.
The only remark I have to make is that, watching at the history of the
mailing list, this announcement was already done back in the days,
almost 1 year ago, but you haven't released any new code.
Naturally, it's your project and since it's open and free we rely on
you for new developments, but McKoi is a very nice, well-structured
and performant DBS, and it would be a shame not to spread it.

May I suggest you a strategy for the release? You should commit any
major change, although not fully working, into the versioning system:
more developers and contributors could be interested in helping you
fixing some problems. My 2c.

Cheer up and good luck for your work!
John
Post by Mark Salter
Post by Tobias Downer
This project has mostly been a one man show. That has its good and bad
points, but I think going into the future this is going to have to change.
And it should be a two way street.
With the details of the Mckoi internals available on the website, I'm
sure some people will be more likely to start supporting the solution
they use.
As a long time lurker (but not a Mckoi user) of this list, I will be
happy to assist where/when I can. May I suggest you try delegating to
the list when you feel the need?
Are you near to sharing access to the version 2 code? I for one would
like to take a look at the pre-release, perhaps helping to polish the
finish?
--
Mark
---------------------------------------------------------------
Mckoi SQL Database mailing list http://www.mckoi.com/database/
---------------------------------------------------------------
Mckoi SQL Database mailing list http://www.mckoi.com/database/
To unsubscribe, send a message to mckoidb-***@mckoi.com
Tobias Downer
2008-01-30 23:50:55 UTC
Permalink
My current idea is to add more collaborative features to the website.
This will happen with the server move. The current server is getting a
bit rusty.

Is there anyone with experience/suggestions on collaborative tools? I'm
thinking of some type of wiki for documentation/article collab that is
easily modable and in Java so we can use a Mckoi server to back it.

Version 2 code is close to a buildable state. As soon as I have a build
that you can do all the basics, I'll be putting the code out to the list.

Toby.
Post by Mark Salter
Post by Tobias Downer
This project has mostly been a one man show. That has its good and
bad points, but I think going into the future this is going to have to
change.
And it should be a two way street.
With the details of the Mckoi internals available on the website, I'm
sure some people will be more likely to start supporting the solution
they use.
As a long time lurker (but not a Mckoi user) of this list, I will be
happy to assist where/when I can. May I suggest you try delegating to
the list when you feel the need?
Are you near to sharing access to the version 2 code? I for one would
like to take a look at the pre-release, perhaps helping to polish the
finish?
---------------------------------------------------------------
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a***@gmail.com
2008-01-31 00:37:57 UTC
Permalink
Toby,
It is good to finally hear from you and great to hear that you have not abandoned mckoi. Though I still have my reservations about it it sounds like you've put a lot of work into the next version and I would be very interested in seeing where it goes. I am happy to help in any way I can. As for feedback about the original mckoi I will try to make a list of problems I have encountered and some constructive suggestions about what I once thought would be useful to mckoi.

Best,
Alex
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

-----Original Message-----
From: Tobias Downer <***@mckoi.com>

Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 15:50:55
To:***@mckoi.com
Subject: Re: Any update on Mckoi's status?


My current idea is to add more collaborative features to the website.
This will happen with the server move. The current server is getting a
bit rusty.

Is there anyone with experience/suggestions on collaborative tools? I'm
thinking of some type of wiki for documentation/article collab that is
easily modable and in Java so we can use a Mckoi server to back it.

Version 2 code is close to a buildable state. As soon as I have a build
that you can do all the basics, I'll be putting the code out to the list.

Toby.
Post by Mark Salter
Post by Tobias Downer
This project has mostly been a one man show. That has its good and
bad points, but I think going into the future this is going to have to
change.
And it should be a two way street.
With the details of the Mckoi internals available on the website, I'm
sure some people will be more likely to start supporting the solution
they use.
As a long time lurker (but not a Mckoi user) of this list, I will be
happy to assist where/when I can. May I suggest you try delegating to
the list when you feel the need?
Are you near to sharing access to the version 2 code? I for one would
like to take a look at the pre-release, perhaps helping to polish the
finish?
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Nicholas Romero
2008-01-31 02:03:33 UTC
Permalink
If you are just looking for a wiki like tool then JSPWiki (jspwiki.org)
is pretty straight forward. I have used it for a customer internal
project about 3 years ago and it worked well. It already has support for
JDBC content providers.

SnipSnap actually already has mckoiDB embedded. It ceased development a
little while back though.

-nxn
Post by Tobias Downer
My current idea is to add more collaborative features to the website.
This will happen with the server move. The current server is getting
a bit rusty.
Is there anyone with experience/suggestions on collaborative tools?
I'm thinking of some type of wiki for documentation/article collab
that is easily modable and in Java so we can use a Mckoi server to
back it.
Version 2 code is close to a buildable state. As soon as I have a
build that you can do all the basics, I'll be putting the code out to
the list.
Toby.
Post by Mark Salter
Post by Tobias Downer
This project has mostly been a one man show. That has its good and
bad points, but I think going into the future this is going to have
to change.
And it should be a two way street.
With the details of the Mckoi internals available on the website, I'm
sure some people will be more likely to start supporting the solution
they use.
As a long time lurker (but not a Mckoi user) of this list, I will be
happy to assist where/when I can. May I suggest you try delegating
to the list when you feel the need?
Are you near to sharing access to the version 2 code? I for one
would like to take a look at the pre-release, perhaps helping to
polish the finish?
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To unsubscribe, send a message to mckoidb-***@mckoi.com
Geert Bevin
2008-01-31 08:36:27 UTC
Permalink
I think that the basic tools for open source software development in
Java have been pretty much agreed upon by the community at large:
* subversion (or mercurial lately)
* confluence as a wiki
* jira as an issue tracker
* fisheye to have a good view on the source repository

The last 3 are commercial, but they grant free licenses to open source projects.
Post by Tobias Downer
My current idea is to add more collaborative features to the website.
This will happen with the server move. The current server is getting a
bit rusty.
Is there anyone with experience/suggestions on collaborative tools? I'm
thinking of some type of wiki for documentation/article collab that is
easily modable and in Java so we can use a Mckoi server to back it.
Version 2 code is close to a buildable state. As soon as I have a build
that you can do all the basics, I'll be putting the code out to the list.
Toby.
Post by Mark Salter
Post by Tobias Downer
This project has mostly been a one man show. That has its good and
bad points, but I think going into the future this is going to have to
change.
And it should be a two way street.
With the details of the Mckoi internals available on the website, I'm
sure some people will be more likely to start supporting the solution
they use.
As a long time lurker (but not a Mckoi user) of this list, I will be
happy to assist where/when I can. May I suggest you try delegating to
the list when you feel the need?
Are you near to sharing access to the version 2 code? I for one would
like to take a look at the pre-release, perhaps helping to polish the
finish?
---------------------------------------------------------------
Mckoi SQL Database mailing list http://www.mckoi.com/database/
--
Geert Bevin
Terracotta - http://www.terracotta.org
Uwyn "Use what you need" - http://uwyn.com
RIFE Java application framework - http://rifers.org
Music and words - http://gbevin.com


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John Garrett Smith
2008-02-21 16:41:24 UTC
Permalink
Hi guys,

I'm sorry to bother everyone with this, but... any news about the
progresses on release of McKoi2?

Thanks!
John
Post by Geert Bevin
I think that the basic tools for open source software development in
* subversion (or mercurial lately)
* confluence as a wiki
* jira as an issue tracker
* fisheye to have a good view on the source repository
The last 3 are commercial, but they grant free licenses to open source projects.
Post by Tobias Downer
My current idea is to add more collaborative features to the website.
This will happen with the server move. The current server is getting a
bit rusty.
Is there anyone with experience/suggestions on collaborative tools? I'm
thinking of some type of wiki for documentation/article collab that is
easily modable and in Java so we can use a Mckoi server to back it.
Version 2 code is close to a buildable state. As soon as I have a build
that you can do all the basics, I'll be putting the code out to the list.
Toby.
Post by Mark Salter
Post by Tobias Downer
This project has mostly been a one man show. That has its good and
bad points, but I think going into the future this is going to have to
change.
And it should be a two way street.
With the details of the Mckoi internals available on the website, I'm
sure some people will be more likely to start supporting the solution
they use.
As a long time lurker (but not a Mckoi user) of this list, I will be
happy to assist where/when I can. May I suggest you try delegating to
the list when you feel the need?
Are you near to sharing access to the version 2 code? I for one would
like to take a look at the pre-release, perhaps helping to polish the
finish?
---------------------------------------------------------------
Mckoi SQL Database mailing list http://www.mckoi.com/database/
--
Geert Bevin
Terracotta - http://www.terracotta.org
Uwyn "Use what you need" - http://uwyn.com
RIFE Java application framework - http://rifers.org
Music and words - http://gbevin.com
---------------------------------------------------------------
Mckoi SQL Database mailing list http://www.mckoi.com/database/
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Mckoi SQL Database mailing list http://www.mckoi.com/database/
To unsubscribe, send a message to mckoidb-***@mckoi.com
Antonello Provenzano
2008-02-21 17:21:47 UTC
Permalink
John,

I cannot tell you anything for sure, but the project is going to be
released before the end of February... maybe a bit later... but
anyway, we're in proximity of the release of McKoi 2.0...

Cheers.
Antonello


On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 5:41 PM, John Garrett Smith
Post by John Garrett Smith
Hi guys,
I'm sorry to bother everyone with this, but... any news about the
progresses on release of McKoi2?
Thanks!
John
Post by Geert Bevin
I think that the basic tools for open source software development in
* subversion (or mercurial lately)
* confluence as a wiki
* jira as an issue tracker
* fisheye to have a good view on the source repository
The last 3 are commercial, but they grant free licenses to open source projects.
Post by Tobias Downer
My current idea is to add more collaborative features to the website.
This will happen with the server move. The current server is getting a
bit rusty.
Is there anyone with experience/suggestions on collaborative tools? I'm
thinking of some type of wiki for documentation/article collab that is
easily modable and in Java so we can use a Mckoi server to back it.
Version 2 code is close to a buildable state. As soon as I have a build
that you can do all the basics, I'll be putting the code out to the list.
Toby.
Post by Mark Salter
Post by Tobias Downer
This project has mostly been a one man show. That has its good and
bad points, but I think going into the future this is going to have to
change.
And it should be a two way street.
With the details of the Mckoi internals available on the website, I'm
sure some people will be more likely to start supporting the solution
they use.
As a long time lurker (but not a Mckoi user) of this list, I will be
happy to assist where/when I can. May I suggest you try delegating to
the list when you feel the need?
Are you near to sharing access to the version 2 code? I for one would
like to take a look at the pre-release, perhaps helping to polish the
finish?
---------------------------------------------------------------
Mckoi SQL Database mailing list http://www.mckoi.com/database/
--
Geert Bevin
Terracotta - http://www.terracotta.org
Uwyn "Use what you need" - http://uwyn.com
RIFE Java application framework - http://rifers.org
Music and words - http://gbevin.com
---------------------------------------------------------------
Mckoi SQL Database mailing list http://www.mckoi.com/database/
---------------------------------------------------------------
Mckoi SQL Database mailing list http://www.mckoi.com/database/
---------------------------------------------------------------
Mckoi SQL Database mailing list http://www.mckoi.com/database/
To unsubscribe, send a message to mckoidb-***@mckoi.com
Tobias Downer
2008-02-22 00:35:28 UTC
Permalink
Hi John,

My plan is to release an early beta by the end of this month. I'm
currently working on completing the reference SQL features I want to be
available in the beta release.

Toby.
Post by John Garrett Smith
Hi guys,
I'm sorry to bother everyone with this, but... any news about the
progresses on release of McKoi2?
Thanks!
John
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d***@eckenfelder.de
2008-01-29 16:28:22 UTC
Permalink
Hi all,

I switched from McKoi to H2 <http://www.h2database.com/> .

Sincerely
Dirk Zöttl



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Tobias Downer
2008-01-30 04:47:49 UTC
Permalink
Hi Alex,

Do you mind describing what the limiting functionality of Mckoi was in
your project and what you found was better in another database you
tried? I'm really interested in hearing constructive feedback
(particularly so of the negative kind) on any aspect of Mckoi.

Toby.
Post by a***@gmail.com
Good point rich,
It is better to work on a pre-existing one rather than start from scratch. Also I know that many people have great experiences with mckoi; I did when I first started using it. Unfortunately the more functionality my software required the more limited I found mckoi to be.
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Tena Sakai
2008-01-28 22:07:15 UTC
Permalink
Hello Alex,

I am sure you have reasons to declare/pronounce mcKoi dead,
but that opinion of yours may not be shared universally.
Some of us are dreamers and wanting to be more stupid than
necessary. I regret that period in my life is over.

Tena


-----Original Message-----
From: ***@mckoi.com on behalf of Alexander Finger
Sent: Mon 1/28/2008 1:44 PM
To: ***@mckoi.com
Subject: Re: Any update on Mckoi's status?

Personally I can't imagine why anyone would waste their time. If you're
going to try and help continue development on a database their are plenty of
better open source ones out there. McKoi is dead I am sure and nothing is
going to bring her back...

A
Post by Tena Sakai
Hi folks,
If I were 10 years younger,
If my mortgage was a bit less and therefore I could afford to work less than full time,
If I were a bit more fluent in database,
If I were a bit smarter and more ambitious,
a) would he be willing to play a role of assisting a small group of developers,
b) what plans he had had for the future of mcKoi while he was leading the project actively,
AND
If his response were positive, I would assemble a small group (fewer than
6) of java programmers...
Oops, I just woke up from a nice dream and back into a reality. I think
that's what they call this
thing I live in. But some of you may be freer, more ambirious, more devoting...
McKoi doesn't have to die.
Tena Sakai
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Mon 1/28/2008 1:07 PM
Subject: Re: Any update on Mckoi's status?
The benefit of Mckoi being open source is that anyone that wants to can
pick up and start where the original developers left off...
-> richard
Post by Alexander Molochnikov
Two days ago I asked he same question on this mailing list.
So far, no reply from the developers of the database.
It does not look promising.
Alex
----- Original Message -----
Date: Monday, January 28, 2008 11:46 am
Subject: Any update on Mckoi's status?
Post by M. A. Sridhar
Does anyone know what's happening with Mckoi? As you know,
the last email in the archives is dated last June, so I'm
wondering if/when the next version might be available.
Regards.
M. A. Sridhar
m_a_sridhar at yahoo dot com
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M. A. Sridhar
2008-02-22 19:03:43 UTC
Permalink
Hi Toby,

This is indeed very good news. Mckoi is an excellent piece of work, and it would very good to see its continued development. I am looking forward to trying out the new version in a few weeks.

Thanks very much for your efforts.

M. A. Sridhar
m_a_sridhar at yahoo dot com


----- Original Message ----
From: Tobias Downer <***@mckoi.com>
To: ***@mckoi.com
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 4:35:28 PM
Subject: Re: Any update on Mckoi's status?


Hi
John,

My
plan
is
to
release
an
early
beta
by
the
end
of
this
month.
I'm
currently
working
on
completing
the
reference
SQL
features
I
want
to
be
available
in
the
beta
release.

Toby.

John
Garrett
Smith
wrote:
Hi
guys,
I'm
sorry
to
bother
everyone
with
this,
but...
any
news
about
the
progresses
on
release
of
McKoi2?
Thanks!
John


---------------------------------------------------------------
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SQL
Database
mailing
list
http://www.mckoi.com/database/
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unsubscribe,
send
a
message
to
mckoidb-***@mckoi.com

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